GE engine mods???

[Excessive]

Hey, im new to the board, it's awesome I found it by the way...anyways could anyone give me suggestions as to what to mod on my 87 celica GTS

[Coomer]

How much are you looking to spend and what kind of power goals do you have in mind?

[Excessive]

Looking to spend 1-2000, but what can I do first that is cheap and effective...?

I already have a short ram intake and an exhaust system (well to the CAT anyways)..

Should I port/polish the intake manifold/throttle body?

What else??

[Coomer]

You could save up for a 3S-GTE swap...but that's not an option for most people, and would require more money than you've currently got.

You might be able to turbo your 3S-GE for around that much money. But I'm not sure.

As far as N/A mods go, you would probably benefit from a S-AFC II or E-Manage and tuning. I think I read in a couple places that people gained a pretty good amount of horsepower from S-AFC IIs and dyno tuning. Also, a header(from a good company, no Pacesetter garbage) would free up a little bit of power, though I don't know if it's worth the cost. You may want to look into cams and underdrive pulleys...I'm not sure if they're available for the first gen. 3S-GE, so you'd want to look into that.

And if you haven't done a tune-up in a long time, your car would probably benefit from one of those. I recently replaced my plugs, wires, distributor cap, and distributor rotor and that stuff was really easy to do.

[White87GT]

You might be able to turbo your 3S-GE for around that much money. But I'm not sure.

Not safely. I'd suggest staying away from FI on the GE if you want the engine to last.

[dynamictuner]

Well 1-2000 dollars you could turbo your car and it would be a reliable setup that would last. But the only way I would recommend this is if you freshing the engine up at least a re-ring rebuild, new water pump, new oil pump. Then if you were to turbo you could always goto the junk yard grab a 5sfe trans being the transmission starter is on the trans side and not under the exhaust manifold. Then make sure to have good injectors I would recommend 440cc at least. A 3SGTE oilpan, CT26 or CT20B turbo, Intercooler, piping, New exhaust 3 inch recommened, a 5sfe wiring harness and ever sensor for that engine, some type of air and fuel controller, I mean the list goes on and on.

3SGTE Manifold (with CT26)
3SGTE Oil Pan
High Heat Range Plugs
Oil Return Fitting and Lines (Earls High Pressure High temp lines $100) (3Fittings)
Intercooler (FMIC)
440 CC injectors (Supra Green Tops or Yellow)
3SGTE Coolant Line
ApexI S-AFC II
BOV
Boost Controller
Metal Headgasket (Camry) or (TTE) NO SEALANT
Better Clutch and Pressure Plate
5SFE Wiring harness (reason being reads map sensor you dont have to worry about our shitty AFM designs.

Now on the other hand N/A
Get the 5sfe harness and ecu with all sensors
2-3rd gen 3sge JDM Header
Port and polish and 3angle vavle job
Dual Vavle springs
over sized vavles
Apexi SAFC II
2 1/2 inch exhaust
Centerforce Clutch
2nd gen pistons if you can find em.
CAI!!
Better plugs and wires
Cam Regrind
KyB struts
coil overs from a 90-99 to put it all down
Man the list goes on and on just gotta look in the right places but all of this on the NA set up should put you well in the 200+hp range for under 1500 :-D

Hit me up on AIM or Yahoo if you want more info ( dynamictuner )

[taticelica]

The cheapest upgrade........advance timing!!!

[blck87gtconv]

Alright, it sounds to me like you don't really know what you're doing aside from the intake and exhaust.

Let's start with this. What is the purpose of the car? Is it a daily driver? A weekend cruiser? How often is it driven? How many miles, on average, are put on it in a week?

While you're answering those, I'll put in my $.02 to the list.

Avoid turboing it, as it's not the best idea, and you can never say, "all motor, baby!" if you do. the 3sge is coveted by every generation after ours.. count yourself fortunate to have one... it's one of the best N/A motors Toyota ever built.

For good N/A tuning, racerb's got the goods on what to do if you're really serious about it.

But for now, considering what you've got, I'd upgrade the ignition system.. including iridium plugs, NGK wires, MSD coil, etc.. I would probably also rework your CAI, as I'm guessing it's not the best setup for optimum performance.

Remember that the more curves in the intake tube, more resistance is added to the flow. I read somewhere that it's like, 40% loss for every 90* bend in the tubing. The best bet is a short ram with a CAI box.

As was mentioned, I'd get a header, but I'd probably also match up the ports. But avoid Pacesetter.. it's worse than the stock header on the 3sge.

As for the exhaust, I'd get a high flow cat. Keep the diameter of the tubing no larger than 2.5".. otherwise turbulenece in the exhaust flow will cause a loss of torque.

I would definitely do some suspension upgrades as top priority. Polyurethane bushings all around, whiteline sway bars, eibach pro-kit, koni yellows, lightweight 15" racing wheels with Azenis or Yokohama AVS rubber. Remember that suspension will have a larger effect on auto-x than any power mod you can think of.

With all that cash, you could probably afford to mill the head, as well... which will help to increase your compression.. the only substitute for boost.

Port and polish is always nice, and remember to keep the engine clean. Seafoam is God's gift to internal engine cleaning. I personally polished my throttle body, without sanding it smooth, though.. but I did notice that it flowed a bit smoother.. it didn't free up any power, but it did help the engine run just a bit smoother.

As was mentioned, the cheapest upgrade is to run 92 octane fuel, and advance your ignition timing about 6 degress before top dead center. Explaination of what this is: When the piston reaches the top of the compression stroke, it is at Top Dead Center. The higher octane fuel is more resistant to combustion than lower octane fuel. When the ignition timing is advanced, it means that it happens sooner in the process than it would otherwise. to advance it 6 degrees, means that the spark plug fires when the crankshaft is 6 degrees away from the rotation point where the piston would be at top dead center.. hence the need for higher octane fuel, since you do not want the chamber to fire completely before the piston is at tdc, or there is a negative power effect, as it adds resistance to the piston's momentum on the compression stroke.. this is called detonation. What advancing the timing does, is it insures a more complete burn of the fuel.. which is always important for an efficient engine. The fuel may be more resistant to the combustion, but it also has more time to reach that point before the piston reaches TDC.

Porting and Polishing and the 3 angle valve job basically make it easier for the engine to breathe. The easier the flow of intake air and exhaust gases, the less power is required to force them through the system. this translates into a freeing of power. Remember that with N/A, no horsepower can be "added" ... it's only freed when the work done to the engine causes it to be just that much more efficient.

Happy tuning -Jason

[White87GT]

Ummm....., yeah ;D

[malodin]

Pacesetter header is bad? ive got a 3sfe (eventually 3sge) and want to get a header and the only one ive found is the pacesetter's what do you suggest?

[blck87gtconv]

malodin said:

Pacesetter header is bad? ive got a 3sfe (eventually 3sge) and want to get a header and the only one ive found is the pacesetter's what do you suggest?

I suggest the factory 3sge header. It's more solid than the pacesetter could ever hope to be.

There are some out there for a 5sfe that you might be able to modify to fit, though.

[White87GT]

blck87gtconv said:

I suggest the factory 3sge header. It's more solid than the pacesetter could ever hope to be.

There are some out there for a 5sfe that you might be able to modify to fit, though.

By modify to fit, he means you have to move the starter to the other side of the transmission for them to fit the 3S-GE engine.

5S-FE headers should bolt right up to the 3S-FE.

[blck87gtconv]

White87GT said:

By modify to fit, he means you have to move the starter to the other side of the transmission for them to fit the 3S-GE engine.

5S-FE headers should bolt right up to the 3S-FE.

While it's true they bolt up, the ports may not match up exactly right.. this is also part of what I meant by "modify".. I figure teh starter was a given. haha

[racerb]

Hey man, check around your area, theres got to be a speed shop or machine shop with info on the basic mods which make power. Even a stock engine rebiuld, which includes, balance and blue printing all internalls, port matching the intake, and maybe even a plus .20 or .40 overbore on the cylinders is good for sizeable power gains. One trick is in keeping the oil plash away from the crank, this reduces rotating friction in the bottom end, increasing power. There is a company here in NC, that makes windage trays for our cars, which does just what I described aboved. I will find their info and forward it to you.

racerb

[Jeremy]

I beleive all 4th gen engines have windage trays in them. Also avoid custom turbo projects enless you have big money to do it right!


I would mill the head considerably, replace the pistons with JE pistons & get total seal, partial gapless rings. That'll eat up $1000 right there with bearings, and reconning the rods and the head set, but could result in close to 50hp. that other $1,000 you got I would buy a mrcontrols fully programable EMS for the turbo MR2.
mrcontrols.com/products/sdrpnp.htm

now you will have close to or over 200hp NA