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Post by ToyGTR on Apr 21, 2005 19:43:39 GMT -5
Cos hes in NZ he can get higher octane so its possible to run higher comp motors...
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Post by racerb on Apr 21, 2005 19:58:18 GMT -5
What's their current cost for fuel, ours keeps climbing. Thats why I'm putting the '87 GTS back on the road, my T-100 V6 is killing me on gas, cost me between 40-45 dollars a fill up. racerb
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Post by ToyGTR on Apr 22, 2005 17:30:18 GMT -5
Its still rising But theres only a 10 cent a litre difference between our best and worst fuels....
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Post by Jeremy on Apr 26, 2005 14:35:22 GMT -5
10:1 pistons plus decking the block & head add about another 2 points so about 12-12.5:1 compression after decking. 20 valve 4A-GE's are 11.5:1 stock Well, I've got 10.5:1, ported, polished, exhaust, intake, +1mm valves, and I can guarantee you I am nowhere near 185hp.. then again, I'm on a 22re as well. I still need to drop this cam in.
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Post by ITAcelica on Apr 29, 2005 11:34:00 GMT -5
I think anything more the 10.5 to 1 is more then you will need on the street.
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Post by trd3sg on May 23, 2005 1:15:37 GMT -5
first post here - how r ya ppl id just like to comment on the compression ratio issue - up to a certain point, raising the standard compression ratio actually unleashes greater efficiency within the safe range of the same fuel - ie. lets say for instance that a motor is happy to run at 10.5:1 on regular uleaded 92 ron fuel - at this 10.5:1 compression, the motor will actually be more efficient and run better than say at 9.5:1 for the same 92 ron fuel. Thats the beauty of upping the compression ratio to a certain point ive actually just purchased my first celica after several years of wanting one (st162 3sge totally stock gen 1) - my first planned upgrades are a head shave, clean up of combustion chamber, 31mm buckets from gen 2 3sge's and a nice set of 280 to 290 degree cams - this along with the usual exhaust, CAI and vernier cam gears im hoping will get me somewhere in the vicinity of 190-200hp at the fly - this without touching the ports hopefully, and possibly removing tvis to help smoothen the idle from the bigger cams - im aiming for bout 10.5 or 10.8:1 compression which should be fine with premium unleaded 96 or 98 ron fuel that we have here in Oz. thats my 2 cents for my first post - hope to learn a bit more from you guys\gals here and share anything i know in future
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shiro
New Member
Posts: 33
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Post by shiro on Jun 7, 2005 17:38:59 GMT -5
I was woried about the fule in my celica. (3rd gen 3sge) I mesured the pump rate. it was 1 galon in 90 seconds!! now... cams.. alot of cams are out theri .. but moust of them (hks) are for the 2nd gen motors. plus. to hige a cam... no low rpm.. I know I have no power at 2,000 to 3,500 rpm.. but it hauls ass at 4,500to 7,000rpm!! I am runing 11.5:1 compresion with stock cams. a "biger" cam will give me. more top end.. but now I will onley have the power at 5,700 to 7,200 rpm! this changes the entier pwoer band. and alters the drivability/ performanc efectivenes of the car. its nice to have big numbers. but at waht cost? when you shift frome 2nd to 3rd its the bigets drop in rpm. 7,000 to 4,400 (or so give or take 200 rpm) having the tork right then to cary you throw 3rd gear is needed. you dont wahnt to shift in to a dead spot. the hige comprestion pistons will help a lot. the 2nd gen crank shafts are stronger with thiker fly wheel bolts. the 2nd gen head have SMALLER ports. yes smaller becus of the tvis system. but the 2nd intake has more mid to hige power air flow and more agresive cam sahfts. biger is not all ways beter. at low rpm you will lose power becuse of the lack in air flow volocoty (I cant spell) frome having large ports. tvis fixes this by closing off half of the intake runers. (works wonders on the 4age) 2nd gen manifolds have a two plenum desing to fix the problem of low air volocoty. for all out drag raging hige rpm BIG cams hi comp pistons and a short intake manifold. for touring and rally a long intake manifold with mild cams for a rpm that maches your transmition. for street economy a fe. low compresion 90 degre valve witha long intake manifold. you cant have low rpm power and hige rpm power. not even with a "vtec" toyota dose the best job of mid to hige power. ok... I hope that ansers some questions... and I bet it rasies some new ones to.. I over bilt my 2nd gen and spun a shell bering.. now that block holds plants.. so I bilt a mild balanced performing motor 3rd gen.. and it handels superpley. the car is much faster with more power. I put a post up of my car caled "a one of a kind celica" it has the list of the things I have done.
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Post by trd3sg on Jun 9, 2005 2:39:58 GMT -5
a couple of things mate
firstly - big compression and longer duration\bigger lift cams go hand in hand - in fact a lot of the times its pointless doing one without the other - the large compression ratio often requires a bit of overlap with the cams to allow for greater volumetric efficiency and the venturi effect
another thing is - your ignition timing needs MAJOR attention when changing cam profiles and compression - you might even be wasting fuel and losing power with big cams and wrong timing - in essence you need more static timing advance and less overall timing - this is so that whilst 'off' the cams' power range, you need extra timing to get you to the power band quite quickly, but with standard ignition values, it will usually mean pinging at the top end cos of the increased overall timing
so this indicates a change in fuel and ignition values, which effectively = aftermarket ecu
ive actually changed direction since my last post - im getting a gen 2 3sge (australian spec = 117kw at 6600rpm) and do all the above work to that instead
when i go for larger cams i will most likely look into either a megasquirt or microtech computer for the celica
ill keep you updated
cheers Mick
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Post by fulcrums on Jun 27, 2005 18:41:53 GMT -5
I agree with higher compression and bigger cams for more power. But who makes high compression pistons and performance cams for the 3S-GE? I checked HKS and Wiseco and they don't have anything listed.
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Post by racerb on Jun 28, 2005 8:17:10 GMT -5
Check with your Toyota dealer for .020 and .040 overbore pistons through TRD or even Toyota OEM. If this fails, then check with JE Pistons or Manley for a possible one-off production run, if enough people want them, it might be worth the extra cost to have them manufactured. As for cams, not real sure whats availible out there for our 3SGEs, but Crower, Crane, and/or Bullfrog, might want our business too. Good luck and happy hunting, it's not easy finding stuff, but it's rewarding when you do. racerb
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shiro
New Member
Posts: 33
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Post by shiro on Jun 29, 2005 16:10:47 GMT -5
I have sean cams all over the place... but not for a 1st gen 3sge.. moust of my tuning time was with the 2nd and 3rd gen 3sge. to get cams for those motors look in hks or over sees markets. .... or in your case you are over sees. ... I cant help you out with the 1st gen head. but a 2nd gen head will fit on a 1st gen block. and the exsust and intake manifolds fit!! I know. I did this converstion. if you plan to use the 1st gen intake with tvis the buterfly valves will have to be modified a bit. if they are open they hit aganest the smaler intake port. you can adapt the tvis vacum to oporate the toyota long short 2 pleum method. with is found on the 2nd and 3rd gen 3sge... to give you an idea turbotrdcelica.proboards29.com/index.cgi?board=members&action=display&thread=1118811503 this is my celica the waht looks like a valve cover is realy the intake manifold.
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Post by fulcrums on Jun 30, 2005 10:54:57 GMT -5
Shiro, dude, thanks a lot for the advice. I'll have to research the differences between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen. 3S-GE's some more. BTW, I'm in Canada and I think you are in NY so I'm not exactly overseas from you. Finally, in North America, what other Toyota products came with a 3S-GE and were they all 1st gen? What about Camry and RAV-4? I intend to check out the local junkyards to find a tired short block to build.
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shiro
New Member
Posts: 33
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Post by shiro on Jun 30, 2005 13:59:42 GMT -5
ohhh. ok 3s short bolcks. all 3s short blocks are the same. but the internal parts are difrent. (guts) so if you get a 3sfe then you get a short stroke block with a weak carank shaft. so if your thinking turbo hp.... hummm dont goet one... the number is the displacment. so 2s = 1.9 3s=2.0 5s= 2.2 same for the 4a 3a= 1.5 4a= 1.6 7a = 1.9 f heads are low rpm tork g heads are hige rpm HP. F= fule injection. T= turbo Z= super gharger. 3SFE 3SGE 3SGTE 3AF 4AFE 4AGE 4AGZE
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