3sfe

[Joel87GT]

Wow, thats alot of compression though it would run like shit w/o headers. Reading for a sec there made me think of a diesel engine rebuilt. Now if you will refer to the 7g engine design. There isnt much except with TVIS, Yammaha Header and its stroking 1.8ltr. The 1.8 can generate 180HP+ then why are we going to higher strokes or higher compression? Wouldnt you want lower compression for increased air+fuel mixtures?

FE at 2.0 is great - its just lacks air and combustion. It's CR is perfect for 1 to 3psi using the eRAM. I just improved in those areas where it lacks. My FE is housed so the engine head cool. If it can operate a cool temps, internally the engine stays strong, esp helps to have an oil cooler). Also to keep the transmission cool I have removed the splash guards. Does it get dirty? Nope, unless im doing WRC in AZ.. ;D

My intake runners are P/P with 8 swirl groves 1" in length. The swirls mate up to the head (Swirl grooves in a .44 Magnum barrell) spinning the air ( turbulence) in the combustion chamber.

Internally my top end is rebuilt; gaset, seals, rings.. Haven't done low end yet cuz it look good to me. I almost changed the valve springs to 3sgtes, but at that time I didnt have the funds but did use stock valves and springs. Head intake is P/P with 1mm convergent channel and exhaust 1mm wider divergent. - nope i didnt want swirls for the head. The purpose of this mod design was for better gas mileage and Throttle response.

Your setup you are building its built for short sprints mostly 1/4 not top end.

Btw, I hit 150 mark at 7500RPM - not 8.

[86er]

Oh, ok. I was just wondering, how does the car feel when you get up to that speed?(real question)

And what parts have you taken off, replaced with lighter ones?

I'm intreged, when we have a meet in AZ, i'll have to see your car.

[Joel87GT]

86er said:

Oh, ok. I was just wondering, how does the car feel when you get up to that speed?(real question)

And what parts have you taken off, replaced with lighter ones?

I'm intreged, when we have a meet in AZ, i'll have to see your car.

Bro she's solid like a roller coaster ride. Kind of like the Superman Ride at Magic Moutain. The 4g body design has alot downforce even without my wing. But at speeds above 110MPH the tail end floats off its OEM stock suspension. This happens because the front downforce tilts the rear upwards - thats not good esp. if you need to make a lane changes or suddenly come to a stop. Installing KONI Yellows and a JSP wing (tilted 12* upwards) and nice set of wheels / tires helps keeps the 4g balanced on all wheels at any speeds. Damn, I love I10 West to Los Angles, 17N to flagstaff. It's a jet ride. Btw- what scares me most is Johnny Law. You can't unrun a radio. Though, a scanner really helps - I find it better than radar. Seriously, - I do obey speed limits when I can. Knowing that 30Miles over the speed limit is automatic Silver Bracelets to cold slammer.

[gtr]

Dude if you did what youi say you did to your 3s-fe which i find hard to belive but im going to belive you for the time being....

Why dident you just do it on a 3s-ge motor if the fe can do this EMAGION what the 3s-ge could do.......

[Joel87GT]

gtr said:

Why dident you just do it on a 3s-ge motor if the fe can do this EMAGION what the 3s-ge could do.......

3sge is the best for N/A @200hp +. Head design is made to breathe huge amount of gases. 2001 we thought of swapping my Fe to Ge head. The fe Head would fit - except the pulleys on fe block dont match low end fe to top end ge. The only way to do it right was a true motor swap.


Since then ppl have tried to make a 3sfte. Tim aka 3SGTEMAN made it work but his fe head failed to hold greater than 5 PSI. The result was a blown valve into the combustion chamber or was it a piston. The project had great results everyting fitted perfectly from te. Except it was doomed using a fe ECU.

Learning from that experience that the fe Head can hold up to 5psi. I needed something that was inexpensive and generated at least 1 to 3psi of boost. Hence, the eRAM was the right solution for me. Since then I have improved from ge N/A mods by increasing intake / exhaust of the fe. The fe is my first learning stage before moving up - its time and money thats holding me back.

If could do ge I would bypass te and drop a ge motor with a real TRD SuperCharger. Besides, Turbos get very hot.

[axis]

Joel87GT said:

generated at least 1 to 3psi of boost.

[Joel87GT]

axis said:

Yeah, its was I was lookin for. Fe can only take so much...

[blck87gtconv]

A little education on aerodynamics:

You say your back end comes up because of "all the downforce on the front of the car".. BS.. What of the low pressure created above the back end when the air is traveling at 130mph+ above the surface without contact? It's called lift, buddy.. not downforce. You just have less weight in the back, so it will lift first. (also more of a low-pressure zone, since you have all that impact on the windshield). A wing will counter the lift, and a stock wing (usually) is designed to spoil the air flow (hence the name.. spoiler) to reduce the effects of lift. You know that funny little spoiler that pops up on the back of turbo beetles? Well, guess what it's for. You might want to put some splitters on the front end to keep it planted firmly as well.. a fiberglass wing can only do so much.. especially since it will flex under the pressure. It's better to spoil the flow in addition to the supplemented downforce. Hope this helps. -Jason

[Joel87GT]

However the see saw affect lfit or float, low or high pressure elsewhere. The backend came up is how it felt on my dnyo arse with stock suspension. It was scary to me with 13" setup. We could get into the aerodyanmics but I have solved that lift already and hope to improve on it once I get the aeroform installed.

[Jeremy]

ok Joel usually I would let you just talk mad shit, but I am drawing the line here. You are a member of my site & I appreciate some of the content you have posted that is actually correct. But I'd have to say that 70% of what you have posted about your engine & the capabilities of your car are unbeleivable without proof.
& my engine did have a header & even if it didn't have a header it wouldn't have made a difference in how the engine idled, if you knew anything about bulding engines then you would know that the higher the duration & lift the less vacuum your engine will create, therefor having a uneven idle. that is why the engine idled like crap.

Wouldnt you want lower compression for increased air+fuel mixtures?
That doesn't even make sense at all. what does compresion have anything to do with Air:Fuel ratio?? Compression is Compression & that's all it is. the pistons wouldn't compress the air more than the fuel
the air & fuel is mixed on the intake stroke not the compression stroke.

Now if you will refer to the 7g engine design. There isnt much except with TVIS, Yammaha Header and its stroking 1.8ltr.

Well for one thing it's not a 7g engine it's a 1g engine since it's the first version of the engine. & it's called a 1ZZ-FE or 2ZZ-GE & they are not a stroked engine or low compression. It is a original engine not based on any other engine. They are both High compression engines. The 1ZZ-FE has VVT'i not TVIS completely different concept & design & application. & the 2ZZ-GE has VVTL'i.

I just improved in those areas where it lacks. My FE is housed so the engine head cool. If it can operate a cool temps, internally the engine stays strong, esp helps to have an oil cooler). Also to keep the transmission cool I have removed the splash guards. Does it get dirty? Nope, unless im doing WRC in AZ..

WTF does that mean? None of that really makes any sense!

Your setup you are building its built for short sprints mostly 1/4 not top end.

Have you ever actually built an engine. All NA 4cylinders create their power in top end. Even highly modified turbocharged 4 cylinders are creating their power high in the rpm range.

I think you need to do your research.

Until I ride or drive your car I will not ever beleive that your FE can command your car to 150mph or 8000 rpms. In fact why don't you comeover to my place & let me drive it, I am gonna drive it & take it to 8grand, Your gonna chicken out cause you know if I take it to 8grand it's gonna rev limit before 8grand & You are going to be exposed as a liar. You are welcome on my boards but keep it real, don't inflate your fantasies about your car to sound cool.

[Joel87GT]

Jeremy said:

Until I ride or drive your car I will not ever beleive that your FE can command your car to 150mph or 8000 rpms. In fact why don't you comeover to my place & let me drive it, I am gonna drive it & take it to 8grand, Your gonna chicken out cause you know if I take it to 8grand it's gonna rev limit before 8grand & You are going to be exposed as a liar. You are welcome on my boards but keep it real, don't inflate your fantasies about your car to sound cool.

The other night I measured my valve clearence. Intake across was at all 8mm impedence. Outake across was 12mm impedence. Today, a 94 tuned Acura Integra with headers, straight pipe and bazzoka muffler could not stay within my draft. Once he was out of my slip stream - he was gone.

All that said, “I hear yah.” I will keep it real but last I remember 7gs CR ratio was near Ge, Te engines with TVIS / vvTL. Its why they went with 1.8 stroker and low CR not near 2.2 5sfes. What made 7g engines its power was the adjustment in the lobes at higher RPMs – controlled detonation btdc. Since vvti improve detonation – the expansion of gases needed headers from Yammaha. There you have it. 1.8 with vvt, headers, 6sp tranmission and you can do 150mark.

I have improved power N/A by increas in/out gases with P/P. Got eRAM at 1 to 3psi boosts. I have MSD that is better detonation spark throughout the cam lobes. Yeah it makes up for me not have vvt or tvis. I have 421 headers with HI CAT for better RPM powerband. Another plus is having OBD I which automatically tunes any changes from the suck, squeeze bang and blow gases - detonation process. The OBD I makes changes when I enable the eRAM. Cars with OBD II – can not adapt to mods –ECU has to be reprogrammed. So any changes to detonation makes cars with OBD2 run so shitty.

Jeremy Im glad you did your research and sorry my experience isnt textbook manuals. But I get those manuals do more reading. Incredible by 30% I can live with that and I do by your grace. Sure a meet sounds great. When is our next AutoX or 4g Meet in AZ? Where can we do 150mark? It be better we hit a drag strip and prove timing slips dont you think? I wouldn’t want to risk any lives or jail time do we? Btw – speed limit is cut from ecu. The only rev limit have installed is my MSD and tat be 8K RPM limit chip.

[rye]

I want timeslips!!

[Jeremy]

ohh & btw you don't measure impedence in mm, impedance is measured in ohms, & is a electrical measuremeant, you are thinking of clearance.

ALL ZZ ENGINES ARE HIGH COMPRESSION
IN FACT ALL ENGINES WITH VVT'I or VVTL'i ARE HIGH COMPRESSION

THE ZZ ENGINES ARE NOT STROKED

I have improved power N/A by increas in/out gases with P/P. Got eRAM at 1 to 3psi boosts. I have MSD that is better detonation spark throughout the cam lobes. Yeah it makes up for me not have vvt or tvis

Having a P/P ERAM & MSD will never makeup for not having VVT, VVT is variable valve timing, what that means to you is that the ecu can vary the cam phasing based on load to give you a longer powerband. You will never acheive that effect with a pp eram & msd.

Jeremy Im glad you did your research and sorry my experience isnt textbook manuals.

Are you trying to say that my experience is text book manuals. Cause I'll have you know that I am ASE certified, Toyota Certified & have worked for the last 6 yrs in the field. I know toyota probably alot better than 98% of the people. I eat Eat, breath, sleep, and shit toyotas.

Btw – speed limit is cut from ecu. The only rev limit have installed is my MSD and tat be 8K RPM limit chip.
That's kind of funny cause when installing a MSD system it is only to supplement the factory ignition system, The ECU still gets the RPM signal from the distributor & it will still cause rev limit. once the ECU see's XXXX rpm from the magnetic pickup in the distributor it will cut the ground side of the coil out, in all MSD installations on these cars the MSD unit uses the ground side of the coil to know when to release the Multiple Spark discharge, since the ECU allready cut the signal the MSD can't do anything.

[rye]

You know....a timeslip would really stop all this fuss.

[Joel87GT]

rye said:

You know....a timeslip would really stop all this fuss.

Rye:

I am not holding Jeremey word for word. I'm not one of those nit pick people who judge ppl for little typeo. I am person who can listen and give ppl a chance to explain themselves.

God Knows this month it has been hell for him. I'm sympathetic. Jer is right, its clearence but my end results of clearence was with resistance. So i used the word impedence. Clearence will do with the least amount of snugg tugg between shim and cam lobes.


The ECU still gets the RPM signal from the distributor & it will still cause rev limit. once the ECU see's XXXX rpm from the magnetic pickup in the distributor it will cut the ground side of the coil out, in all MSD installations on these cars the MSD unit uses the ground side of the coil to know when to release the Multiple Spark discharge, since the ECU allready cut the signal the MSD can't do anything.


Ok... I bring my wirelsss notebook outside. Prior installtion is a 4K RPM limiter. Im idle at 800RPM. I mashed the pedal ... RRRRRRRR the engine cuts off at 4k.

2minutes later. I installed 5K RPM MSD limiter. Start the car. Mash the Pedal RRRRRRRRRRRRRR... Revs stop at 5K RPM.

Another 2min later. I installed 6k RPM MSD Limiter. Start the car. Mash the Pedal RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Revs stop at 6K.

Then reinstall 8K RPM - and shut off car.

This is what i experience and no way in hell will i rev 7 to 8K RPM without engine load to the wheels. My MSD 6 AL must be doing something right, must be the EIS Tachometer?

As for the magnetic pickup . I think its the speed limiter. Dont know the specs but I THINK those megnetic revolutions are sent to ECU as speed signal. So when the 4g does 112mph it cuts off the ignition. Am I saying Jer is wrong? No, but this is what I experience with my setup. All my setups are explained on my site.

Next, Jer knows shit - no doubt in my mind. Nor do I doubt his credibility. Nor do I think Jer answers from a text book. My experience is DIY and having friends get together working on cars toyos, honda, nissans. Been doing DIY since 1998 -modding.. Over the years - I just wrote the check to toyo dealers. Now, I wish I knew how to weld.

Nice to know he's ASE. I had two friends from VA beach who are ASe TRD techs, and 3 who are not but do toyos for hobbie. I didnt know Jer was a mechanic at a toyo dealer. I should stop by his work for a tune up. What the rate over here? Va Beach was 89 per hour + Parts? Its probably 138 per hour + Parts. LOL.

Rye - I hope you and all will understand that Im not having last word here. I'm being cool about this as I gather my thoughts and try to explain myself. I'm sure once we meet - we wont throw rocks. I really like to see his setup and all the AZ 4gs setups too. 86er especially.

Peace