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Post by racerb on Feb 23, 2005 21:58:32 GMT -5
uh.. basically, you get it off of any 2nd gen 5sfe with a m/t Hey what I mean't to say, was you can also get one from the Camery, Tom had already mentioned the Celicas having them. Sheeeez, it's like being in school all over again, and hell I graduated 25 years ago. racerb
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Post by White87GT on Feb 23, 2005 22:02:30 GMT -5
Hey Tom final drive makes a big difference, and tire diameter too, it changes gearing also. racerb Ok, I ran the numbers. Damn you guys for making me interested in this, I have a ton of homework to do. The tire size on the GTS is 205/60/14. The stock tire size for the 6th Generation Celica GT is 205/55/15. Pluging those numbers into the handy tire calculator, we find this: GTS (205/60/14) - 1889mm 6th Gen GT (205/55/15) - 1905mm This means that the GTS tire circumference is .8 % smaller than the 6th Gen. This makes for higher gearing, albit not by much. From what I'm understanding, assuming ToyotaCelicaOnline is right, the transmission should act like the stock S-53 with the GTS gearing. And it would act like this with stronger synchros. As far as the ST/GT gearing, the breakdown looks like this- ST/GT (185/70/13) - 1851mm 6th Gen GT (205/55/15) - 1905mm Meaning that the ST/GT stock tire size is 2.9% smaller in diameter than the 6th Gen. That would improve the gearing ever so slightly more, not to mention the improved final drive. That might acutally wake the 3S-FE up in the upper gear pulls, as 5th would actually be able to accelerate more. Could be an alternative for those that use the FE on the track. Hmmm. I really need a working 3S-GE now, I want to test this thing. I still have the stock numbers (RPM wise) from the GTS S-53. I wonder.....
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Post by racerb on Feb 23, 2005 22:11:37 GMT -5
Yeah Tom your right, you would be a little faster on top-end, as in total speed. The only problem is it would take you a longer distance to acheive that top speed, that why we racers usually go with a higher final-drive number like the 4.18. Hey I've seen Honda CRXs pulling 4.95s at the track, just wish we could get them too. racerb
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Post by White87GT on Feb 23, 2005 22:17:09 GMT -5
Yeah Tom your right, you would be a little faster on top-end, as in total speed. The only problem is it would take you a longer distance to acheive that top speed, that why we racers usually go with a higher final-drive number like the 4.18. Hey I've seen Honda CRXs pulling 4.95s at the track, just wish we could get them too. racerb Ok, you just confused me. I thought that the lower the number, the higher the gearing. Meaning that you had to have more room and more power from the engine to get it up to speed, but at cruising speed the RPMS would be lower, and thus, economy. Where as the higher numbers are a lower gear ratio, meaning that the engine is better able to make use of the whole gear, and thus go faster when in the top gear. The downside to this is the fact that when cruising, the RPMS are higher and you are burning more gas. This is the direct reason that the ST/GT get better gas milage than the GTS. If you use a 4.1 final drive as opposed to the 3.71 final drive in an ST or a GT with the 3S-FE, wouldn't that mean that the car would be able to wind 5th gear out faster, and achieve top speed faster? But because of the shorter gear ratio, the car would 'gear out' at a lower speed, but take less time to get to that speed than with a lower gear ratio? I just don't understand the "It would take you a longer distance to achieve top speed". Then again, I might have no idea of what I'm talking about. That happens alot.
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tomek
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Post by tomek on Feb 24, 2005 1:19:27 GMT -5
OK As far as I have learned from you, I'll certainly loose some of the 3sge's s53 performance. But I can get it with a tranny. Finally. I have a celi with a 3sfe and an s53. I've got one spare S53 from a european carina II - thinking it's exactly the same as the 3sfe (since caqrina used the same 3sfe). Tha plan is buying the whole new engine with a tranny. WIll those ones be useless then? Or will some parts fit?
And the last thing:
Will the driveaxles fit the gts s53? I know it's a diffent design. Is there a possibility of using 3sfe driveshafts, as far as I want to stay with my old hubs an 4 lug rotors?
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Post by racerb on Feb 24, 2005 17:36:34 GMT -5
Yeah Tom the lower the number, the taller the gear, thats why the Nascar teams at Daytona run like a 3.10 gear. It's slower to get up to speed, but faster on top-end, that's one of the reasons you see so many teams making deals to pit togather, so they can draft on each other. We run the higher numbers, lower gears, so we can get off the turns quicker, as that is more important than top speed on most road coarses.
racerb ;D
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tomek
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Post by tomek on Feb 24, 2005 17:50:01 GMT -5
Yeah Tom the lower the number, the taller the gear, thats why the Nascar teams at Daytona run like a 3.10 gear. It's slower to get up to speed, but faster on top-end, that's one of the reasons you see so many teams making deals to pit togather, so they can draft on each other. We run the higher numbers, lower gears, so we can get off the turns quicker, as that is more important than top speed on most road coarses. racerb ;D That seems clear to me. I knew that. My only serious doubt now is the driveaxle compatibility. Shall I buy the complete set: the GE + tranny + axles and fit them to my current hubs and rotors (whatever...) or is it better to stay with the 3sfe ones? Will they bolt right onto the tranny?
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Post by racerb on Feb 24, 2005 21:37:54 GMT -5
Hey it's always been my opinion to get all I can, so if you can get the entire driveline set, go for it, you'll have the abilty to swap in what you need. Also the things you don't need right now, would'nt go bad, so keep them as future spares. racerb
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tomek
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Post by tomek on Feb 28, 2005 4:22:28 GMT -5
Yes, I know. I personally have a garage full of spare parts. But i don't want to end up like this:
3s-ge -> new tranny -> new driveaxles ->new hubs - new rotors (5 lug) -> new front wheels -> new rear wheels -> new rear hubs -> new braking system
So, where should I break this horrible chain? I definitely want to stay with my current wheelset.
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Post by White87GT on Feb 28, 2005 8:14:53 GMT -5
3S-GE, New transmission, new driveaxels. End it there.
I'm 99.9% sure that the manual transmission drive axels are interchangeable.
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tomek
New Member
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Post by tomek on Feb 28, 2005 10:56:45 GMT -5
3S-GE, New transmission, new driveaxels. End it there. I'm 99.9% sure that the manual transmission drive axels are interchangeable. They're for 100% different, but perhaps the hub splines are identical...
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Post by White87GT on Feb 28, 2005 18:52:19 GMT -5
They're for 100% different, but perhaps the hub splines are identical... Your right, the GTS axels are larger and can handle more power. The splines, having looked at both, appear to be the same. I do not know if they are interchangeable at the hub. Hmmm.
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tomek
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Post by tomek on Feb 28, 2005 19:40:18 GMT -5
So... does ANYBODY know if I can bolt on the 3sfe axles to a 3sge tranny? Or is it possible to use 3sge axles with a GT hub?
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Post by racerb on Feb 28, 2005 20:22:06 GMT -5
Hey dude I haven't reached that point with my engine/tranny swap, as I'm still kinda looking for a donor car, cause my GTS is too fun to tear apart right now. Like I've said before, I'm building a GT into a GTS racecar, but I will be swapping the entire engine, trans, driveline, and all hub assemblies. In the process, I might have time to look at the possabilty of interchange of components, but am not quite to that point yet. I'll keep you posted on my project and it's stages.
racerb ;D
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Post by White87GT on Feb 28, 2005 20:26:46 GMT -5
So... does ANYBODY know if I can bolt on the 3sfe axles to a 3sge tranny? Or is it possible to use 3sge axles with a GT hub? Jeremy, but he's gone missing lately.
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